Forums: Index > Fan Theories > "Dot vas de deal."
Based on Gil's reaction in today's comic ✣ , I'm beginning to wonder if "the deal" was made with the Baron. If so, why? Vot hyu tink? --mnenyver 05:31, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
- Could be, or it could be part of the same mission that sent Da Boyz looking for a Heterodyne - i.e, no one can come home (and leave the baron's service) until we find an heir. My guess is that Mamma Gkika was left out of the deal to oversee the group sent out to look for the Heterodyne. --Vikingkingq
- Gil don' know ev'rytink ... Klaus is a spark, and he made the original deal. He surely knows that the Jägers are hunting for an heir and it might even be part of the deal. He also must know what Gil (and we) now know—most of the Jägerkin in Mama Gkika's are not fake. I'd bet two things: tourists seldom come into Mama's Place, and Mama wasn't left out of the deal, she's part of the deal. She owns the waiting room for the Jäger Doktor's office. Gil's a spark too—he figured it all out before he sat down with "Mr. Coffee," and it may be treated as so obvious it goes without saying. Heh. Hyu vait and see, pipple. I vould hoffer to eat my hat if I vas wrong, but any post vere hyu gots to eat you hat is... Czrkvyk 00:44, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- I'm confused here. I don't know how "we" know that there are any real Jägers in Mamma Gkika's other than Mamma Gkika herself... and her patients. Oh, wait, you're counting the ones who have bar fights and poetry slams underground; yes, they outnumber the three girls who perform above ground. But those girls are human; otherwise, the tourists would have noticed. (The implication of "I don't drink" in context is, of course, obvious.) --Quadibloc 00:11, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
- I'm pretty confident of two things: the deal was with the Baron, and it did not include an explicit provision for any of the Jägers to be permitted to be excluded from that deal to be at large searching for a new Heterodyne. The page ✣ where all this is explained is unambiguous, and da Boyz are not going to lie to the Heterodyne. But they will ✣ keep secrets from the Baron (as we see when General Krizhan quickly intervenes to prevent the others from blurting out the fact that Olga's body isn't Agatha's). So Mamma Gkika, Jenka, and da Boyz are all highly unofficial, illegal, and irregular. (Of course, like Punch and Judy in Gil's care, that doesn't mean he doesn't know they exist.) --Quadibloc 00:07, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
- Right. As long they don't "lose their hats" and pretend to be Wulfenbach Jägers he isn't going to specifically hunt them down. Of course, their plans (like trying to sneak through Sturmhalten) will still fail. As far as the confusion about the above discussion, do remember that it was nine months ago.⚙Zarchne 07:39, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
- Oh, I don't know about any all-or-none requirement. The Baron could have offered a deal to each individual Jäger that "you join my army" and "I will prevent reprisals against you". Jägers being Jägers, they'd have all taken the deal together because of groupishness, but that needn't have been a condition. The whole deal would have been presented as "temporary—until the Heterodynes return", because of the Jägers' pre-existing oath to House Heterodyne.
- Why did the Jägergenerals have to issue an order to da Boyz? 1. Because they felt that their oath to House Heterodyne required Jägerkin to keep looking, and 2. Because the volunteers (da Boyz) needed motivation to split from the group.
- The alternative to such an order is bad. The Jäger group takes Baron Wulfenbach's deal, but feels guilty about it. The guiltiest-feeling Jägers eventually get rebellious. They agitate. Maybe they break discipline and go looking on their own, making them AWOL in the Baron's unforgiving eyes. The whole deal falls apart. Better for those guilty-feeling Jägers not to take service under Wulfenbach, but to volunteer to conduct a search that their hearts would have lead them to do anyway.
- I think without da Boyz and similar being 'wild', the whole of Jagerkind is considered to have broken the Jagertroth. I don't know what happens when you break Jagertroth, but I'm betting it's not pretty. It might even result in de-jagerisation for all we know. It probably results in death (eventually). --Faultty
- Or worse, you could lose your hat. Argadi 20:46, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
- Well, Vole still seems to have his hat. And we know he "iz no longer a Jäger" ✣ . CaptMorgan 02:22, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
- Und Goot Griff! Efen Vole haz to not be "oudt uv Uniform". He iz still in zervice, ja! Altgorl 10:36, December 11, 2009 (UTC)
I'm wondering, why did the jägers have to take the deal in the first place? Maxim said "He needed us, but not as much as ve needed him" - why did they need the baron so badly? I know it sounds trivial, but when I rethink it, I start to wonder. The Jäger are a large group of really good fighters and quite resilient, they should be able to survive without any protection. The wild Jägers do. So why?
Of course, there's reason A: they would be hunt down by the baron's troops if they refused. But that's hard to believe for me. Even if now the rest of the baron's troops were able to defeat the whole of the jägers, back when the baron made the deal, he didn't yet have an army strong enough to overhelm the jägers. I mean, sure, others are very strong, too, but the Jäger are a whole race of kickass crazy raging supersoldiers, and there's a lot of them, so I can't honestly believe the baron posed a real thread to them, at that time.
Reason B: they need to have orders and some sort of big boss to follow, even if it's not their true master, to not go completely nuts and confused? Couldn't survive to be left without leader/structure/authority? So, it was more a psychological need? And the generals knew that? (more plausible.) Though the Jägers do respond to the Jägergenerals, and thus seem to be able to keep a stabile (hierarchic) group structure of their own.... but perhaps without the Baron, they wouldn't manage that.
Or C: [insert interesting explanation yet to be revealed] EverythingGoesBoom! 14:39, March 12, 2010 (UTC)
- Hi, sry me again! I just was thinking about this whole deal/oath/whatever thing again. And so I noticed, that there are perhaps two different deals we are talking about
- 1. being the deal with the baron. ✣ . What this deal contains, besides "fight for me", we don't know.
- And, I second Quadibloc, the deal with the Baron certainly had no "you can have a secret base to look for the lost Heterodynes" clause. They do try to keep their search secret from the Baron. (Though I'm pretty sure the existence of Mama Gkika's is no secret for the Baron, but he acts as if he didn't know).
- The Baron seems to be ok with Vole (who, all group-psychological-stuff aside, technically still is a Jäger) being in the town, in spite of the deal. So probably the Baron makes an exception for Vole, because of his non-existent loyality to House Heterodyne.
- 2. the Jägertroth. Maxim and Oggie are not talking about a deal, but about a solemn oath ✣ . Somehow I don't see the Jägers calling the deal with the Baron a "solemn oath", worth dying for. So it could be that the Jägertroth included the "you are not to stay in Mechanicsburg, until the family is back" part, too.
- I suspect, the Jäger are doubly bounded to not enter the citiy. One bond being the deal with the Baron, and this deal can be bent, broken, whatever, as long as you don't get caught. The other bond being the Jägertroth (or an other "solemn vow", but I don't think they make many of them), and is much more serious. Though, as the Jäger are not the most lawful individuals, and there is free will, and you don't ✣ even lose your hat, they will bend the law, and eventually break it for greater good. (?) EverythingGoesBoom! 22:37, March 12, 2010 (UTC)
- Incorrect. as it turns out. There is just the deal with the Baron. Confirmed in Agatha H and the Voice of the Castle. He didn't think he could reform them if they were spending time in their home, where all their most violent deeds were on monuments and in children's books. (Page 47, footnote 16.) Presumably they take this deal seriously, since it was made by the entire host. Thepdv (talk) 07:39, October 29, 2017 (UTC)
- Why did the Jaegers need the Baron? Where did we first see Da Boys and what were they doing?
- Sergent Zuli explains This is a Feudal or semi-Feudal society. You either serve a Noble house or are preyed on by them. The Jaegers are NOT a Noble house, they are minions and are not at all popular beyond Mechanicsburgh. Isolated and loose in the Wastelands, they would be slowly picked off, individually and in small groups. They would also be under regular attack from every other Noble house and be suffering casualites that could not be replaced. Baron Wulfenbach was powerful enough that no other house would bother them. Note how the Guards at Sturmhalten react to Dimo displaying a Wulfenbach emblem. AndyAB99 17:53, April 30, 2011 (UTC)
- I suspect, the Jäger are doubly bounded to not enter the citiy. One bond being the deal with the Baron, and this deal can be bent, broken, whatever, as long as you don't get caught. The other bond being the Jägertroth (or an other "solemn vow", but I don't think they make many of them), and is much more serious. Though, as the Jäger are not the most lawful individuals, and there is free will, and you don't ✣ even lose your hat, they will bend the law, and eventually break it for greater good. (?) EverythingGoesBoom! 22:37, March 12, 2010 (UTC)